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	<title>Comments on: A Pragmatic Opinion on Crappy Websites</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/</link>
	<description>Science is wicked fun</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:34:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marlin</title>
		<link>http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/comment-page-1/#comment-545</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ian.sundermedia.com/?p=160#comment-545</guid>
		<description>It is so very important to remember the essential truth of point #5.  The fact of obnoxious flash content does not make flash itself evil.

Concerning HTML5 and the canvas tag, just as with earlier web media technologies, we&#039;ll know that they&#039;ve fully arrived on the scene when the, ahem, adult entertainment industry adopts them for content delivery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so very important to remember the essential truth of point #5.  The fact of obnoxious flash content does not make flash itself evil.</p>
<p>Concerning HTML5 and the canvas tag, just as with earlier web media technologies, we&#8217;ll know that they&#8217;ve fully arrived on the scene when the, ahem, adult entertainment industry adopts them for content delivery.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Haddad</title>
		<link>http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Haddad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ian.sundermedia.com/?p=160#comment-537</guid>
		<description>Ian, I love how you so aptly captured the typical business owner&#039;s through process, especially as part of point #3 in your post - &quot;90% of users is good enough&quot;.

This is so wrong. This is the wrong argument to be having.

I cringe when I see ALL FLASH websites, not because I&#039;m running FlashBlock and its an extra step for me to get their content, but because they&#039;ve got all this content that is doing NOTHING for their SEO.

Nothing stings me more than having to tell one of my customers that they really need to redevelop their website if their goal is to leverage their site for SEO. A blog can get them part of the way there, but then they&#039;re not able to link directly to relevant sections of their website without saying &quot;...and then click on the barking dog, and then the spinning radiation icon, and hold down shift when you click on the pi symbol&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, I love how you so aptly captured the typical business owner&#8217;s through process, especially as part of point #3 in your post &#8211; &#8220;90% of users is good enough&#8221;.</p>
<p>This is so wrong. This is the wrong argument to be having.</p>
<p>I cringe when I see ALL FLASH websites, not because I&#8217;m running FlashBlock and its an extra step for me to get their content, but because they&#8217;ve got all this content that is doing NOTHING for their SEO.</p>
<p>Nothing stings me more than having to tell one of my customers that they really need to redevelop their website if their goal is to leverage their site for SEO. A blog can get them part of the way there, but then they&#8217;re not able to link directly to relevant sections of their website without saying &#8220;&#8230;and then click on the barking dog, and then the spinning radiation icon, and hold down shift when you click on the pi symbol&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: woogychuck</title>
		<link>http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/comment-page-1/#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>woogychuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 04:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ian.sundermedia.com/?p=160#comment-536</guid>
		<description>Jeff, 

Keep in mind that I&#039;m a sarcastic ass. The over-reaction was 100% intentional and I assumed that you would remember I&#039;m a complete ass when reading it.

That being said, I think that the &quot;It doesn&#039;t work on my iPad&quot; argument is BS for a few reasons.
#1. It makes the issue product specific. Business owners can ignore standards much easier if they thing the problem is isolated to a single device. In reality, &quot;It doesn&#039;t work on anything mobile&quot; is more effective.
#2. Making the issue Flash vs iPad encourages other devices to support Flash as a means to differentiate themselves. Android has already started marketing Flash support in response to Apple&#039;s marketing.
#3. We need to make the argument pro-standards rather than anti-flash. Arguments that are solely negative are rarely well received.
#4. Finally, use points that non-tech people will get. For example: Business owners may not give a shit about iPads, but they probably have a vested interest in SEO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, </p>
<p>Keep in mind that I&#8217;m a sarcastic ass. The over-reaction was 100% intentional and I assumed that you would remember I&#8217;m a complete ass when reading it.</p>
<p>That being said, I think that the &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t work on my iPad&#8221; argument is BS for a few reasons.<br />
#1. It makes the issue product specific. Business owners can ignore standards much easier if they thing the problem is isolated to a single device. In reality, &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t work on anything mobile&#8221; is more effective.<br />
#2. Making the issue Flash vs iPad encourages other devices to support Flash as a means to differentiate themselves. Android has already started marketing Flash support in response to Apple&#8217;s marketing.<br />
#3. We need to make the argument pro-standards rather than anti-flash. Arguments that are solely negative are rarely well received.<br />
#4. Finally, use points that non-tech people will get. For example: Business owners may not give a shit about iPads, but they probably have a vested interest in SEO.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff L</title>
		<link>http://ian.sundermedia.com/2010/06/a-pragmatic-opinion-on-crappy-websites/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ian.sundermedia.com/?p=160#comment-535</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll go ahead and out myself as the one who got Ian fired up about this tonight:
http://twitter.com/jlbruno/status/16349916120

First, I&#039;ll say that I think &quot;It doesn&#039;t work on my iPad&quot; is a pretty solid argument against Flash these days. The iPad/iPhone isn&#039;t going away, which means Flash isn&#039;t a solid cross browser/cross platform solution anymore. 

Second, I think you over-reacted to my original tweet. I never said Flash shouldn&#039;t be used. I have no problem with the fact that I have a device that doesn&#039;t run that particular plugin. I do have a problem that I visited six different websites for local business and I was only able to view one of them. 

I&#039;m certainly not ranting about how bad Flash is. Flash can be great when used the proper way—as a progressive enhancement to existing content, the same way Javascript should be used. 

You argue that these 5 local business might not give a shit to lose my business. I argue that they likely have no idea they lost it because their website wasn&#039;t accessible on a popular new computing platform. 

I agree…no whiny bullshit. Let&#039;s target the people who don&#039;t get it, and let me know about the problem. Pretty sure that&#039;s what my tweet was meant to do (it certainly wasn&#039;t aimed at the developers like yourself, who are already aware of the problem).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll go ahead and out myself as the one who got Ian fired up about this tonight:<br />
<a href="http://twitter.com/jlbruno/status/16349916120" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/jlbruno/status/16349916120</a></p>
<p>First, I&#8217;ll say that I think &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t work on my iPad&#8221; is a pretty solid argument against Flash these days. The iPad/iPhone isn&#8217;t going away, which means Flash isn&#8217;t a solid cross browser/cross platform solution anymore. </p>
<p>Second, I think you over-reacted to my original tweet. I never said Flash shouldn&#8217;t be used. I have no problem with the fact that I have a device that doesn&#8217;t run that particular plugin. I do have a problem that I visited six different websites for local business and I was only able to view one of them. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly not ranting about how bad Flash is. Flash can be great when used the proper way—as a progressive enhancement to existing content, the same way Javascript should be used. </p>
<p>You argue that these 5 local business might not give a shit to lose my business. I argue that they likely have no idea they lost it because their website wasn&#8217;t accessible on a popular new computing platform. </p>
<p>I agree…no whiny bullshit. Let&#8217;s target the people who don&#8217;t get it, and let me know about the problem. Pretty sure that&#8217;s what my tweet was meant to do (it certainly wasn&#8217;t aimed at the developers like yourself, who are already aware of the problem).</p>
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